Finally, a Kate-centric episode that wasn't so horrible! Hurley and Miles totally rocked this episode! Though I agree with you Buzz, less sap, more action!

I was thinking, when Juliet came up with the idea to have the Others save Ben, do you think she knew what the consequences of that would be, as she was a former other? She seemed pretty conflicted with the idea and was so angry at Jack for not saving him.

I think Juliet is angry because Jack is forgetting his duties as a doctor. Like she said, "he's just a kid" (and not yet the Ben they know and seriously dislike), though I do love that bit of irony from Lostipedia.

Also, could Juliet be considered a true "Other" in the same way as Richard and Ben? Richard is a Hostile (as is Ellie (Eloise Hawking?) and Charles (Widmore)). Juliet was duped into coming to the island. Does she really identify herself as an "Other"? Well, I just remembered that she mentions 'those are her people' at some point.

I will say I'm loving this season!!

When Sayid shot Ben last week, I thought that this might be what turned him into the Ben we know and this week's episode seems to confirm this. Though my original theory was that Ben was going to die, but that the Island would "bring him back" and that that would be what changed him.
So basically, quite a few of the Losties contributed to Ben turning "evil": Sayid by shooting him, Jack by not helping him and Kate and Sawyer by taking him to the Others. We seem to be getting a lot of answers lately, I love it.

My favourite part was also the Hurley and Miles talk.
I feel just as confused as Hurley does . The supermarket scene was scary. At first I thought the woman was Claire from the back but I knew that wasn't possible. She looked like she was taking him out of the store.

What if Ben does remember Sayid or did the Others erase his memories?

We need to take into consideration what Faraday said a little while back, which was that nothing they could do would change the future. No matter that Sayid shot Ben, we had to know that he wouldn't die because Sayid came from the future. Somehow, whether or not Sayid shot Ben and Jack saved him, he would have ended up with Richard and the others. That was his past and that was how it would end up no matter how things might have changed.

Obviously, in the "true past," Ben found his way to the others in some other way that we will probably never know, but because Sayid shot him, destiny, if you can call it that, found another way to bring him to Richard so that nothing would be changed. You can try to change the past but it will always find its way back to its path.

I used to like Kate, but man her wishy washiness REALLY irritates me. I'm glad that Jack seems to realize that she never really loved him. And I'm glad that Sawyer told Kate that he was doing it (taking Ben to the others) for Juliette. As for the Others, we were tallking last night how there's almost like different types of Others. The Original Others/Hostiles and the not by choice Others (like Juliette). She still lived with them and worked with them, so I think she considers herself an Other, but I don't think she's as Connected to the island as the original hostile Others are.
I loved seeing Richard take Ben into the Temple. I'm SO curious what's in there and why would it change him? Is the the smoke monster or whatever the smoke monster protects? Is there like some kind of godlike creature there or like the true essence of the island?
Also, here's a theory. Richard said that Ben won't "remember any of this" I don't know what time period that pertains to, but what if our Losties somehow get out of the past between now and when Ben is healed and conscious and That is why he doesn't remember any of them in the future? They've got to get to the future somehow/sometime. Sun is searching for Jin, Kate is searching for Claire, they're all in the wrong time!
And I LOVE LOVE LOVE Ben waking up to Locke like What the.....?!?!?! so awesome.

Right, she may not be a true "Other" in the sense that she would rather go home than spend time with Ben...but the fact still remains that she was with the others for an extended period of time and is most likely privy to the inner workings of what they can do. Obviously she's pissed because Jack is doctor and refused to help. I was just speculating that maybe she also knew what would happen to Ben if the Others saved him. Also, I believe the terms "hostile" and "other" are interchangeable. The DI's "hostile" is the Losties "other", if that makes sense.

Anyway...How about that interaction with Roger and Kate? I was so worried that he was going to make a pass at her when they first met LOL.

I like the Lostpedia idea as well and I also thought that the best part in this episode was the Miles and Hurley part.

I wonder now if that is why Ben singles out Kate, Sawyer and Jack in the future - the whole thing of at the beginning of the series about the list and also when he made Michael bring them to the dock.

Also like that we know Kate's motivation for coming back to the island. I'm glad it's not about Sawyer and also glad that Claire was finally mentioned. I wonder if anyone will mention Bernard and Rose soon!

Renee: I completely agree with you. And I loved Ben's reaction to Locke! I was always curious if Ben knew that Locke would come back to life, but from his look, I'd say he was pretty freaked out. I'll withhold further judgment until after next week's Ben-centric episode. Can't wait!

Jelly: Don't forget about Vincent the dog! Just as important and Bernard and Rose IMO

Tarabara - True! That would be a funny episode idea of just following Vincent in all of this time travel and seeing what he sees.

Can someone remind me: Did Kate and Cassidy meet before Kate was lost on the island? Because when she came by Cassidy's to drop the news about Sawyer wanting his daughter taken care of, they seemed to already know each other. Brain = totally empty.

geeksugar - yes they met in a previous episode when Kate was on the run and Cassidy helped her out. I think Cassidy was conning some other people and Kate was on to her, or something like that?

Jelly, that sounds kind of familiar. Ok so, you know what I want? Claaaaaire. Not just to know where she is but more answers pertaining to her first season backstory (one of my faves) about how Aaron could NOT be raised by another slash MUST be raised by another. I thought this Kate episode would address it a little, but it did not.

Another thing — re: Hurley's argument. Ben could have recognized Sayid as the man who shot him, but he was already trying to mask his identity. He's diabolical and wouldn't act as if he recognize Sayid. Not that I understand what's going on with this past present crap at all.

geeksugar - I miss Claire too. I wonder if she's traveled back in time as well.

I loved Mile's response to Hurley when he asked how come Ben wouldn't recognize Sayid as the shooter from the past. Miles just goes "oh yeah..." That's how my responses are every time a past clue was brought back. x-)

mstrauss, my understanding of the whole time travel issue differs somewhat from yours. The way I understand it, there is no "true past", but everything the Losties experience now is always what happened. So basically, there's only one timeline that can't be manipulated. Though for some reason, Desmond seems to be an exception to this.

Madchen - How is Desmond an exception?

I'm not a fan of this episode. I agree buzz, less sappy more smokey, FTW!

Geek, Kate and Cassidy met at the gas station when Cassidy was trying to con some guys into buying jewelry, so Kate helped her out. Then Cassidy helped Kate see her mother one last time in the hospital before she went on the run.

I loved this episode. It was a major improvement from last week.

What's the deal with Richard saying Ben will lose his innocence when he goes into the temple/smokey's lair?

It sounded oddly molesty....but I'm they didn't mean for it to.

"Obviously, in the "true past," Ben found his way to the others in some other way that we will probably never know, but because Sayid shot him, destiny, if you can call it that, found another way to bring him to Richard so that nothing would be changed"

No the past has always been this way, Juliet and Sawyer always took ben to The others.

Caterpillar, I really don't think that the past and the present are coming together. I think that realy did go back in the past and are living in a different reality. That is what Miles and Hurley were fighting about and I am taking Hurley's side on this one.

So does this mean that Ellie and Charles are the leaders of the hostiles (others)? What i want to know is how the power switched from Richard to them.

I don't think the power switched from them to Richard. From what I got, Richard lets people think they are in charge (Charles, Ben, Locke) but really Jacob/Richard are in charge at all times. They just let those other people think they are in charge.

I agree Jelly. Richard may play second-in-command, but I think his role is much bigger than some of the Others realize.

I loved that it was a Kate episode! And I was so glad to get some answers about Aaron's whereabouts, even though I pretty much KNEW he was with Claire's mother. And who WAS that weird blonde lady in the grocery store?? You know she's someone of significance...

Jelly888--"I wonder now if that is why Ben singles out Kate, Sawyer and Jack in the future - the whole thing of at the beginning of the series about the list and also when he made Michael bring them to the dock." I am wondering that too!

Oh man! I totally forgot that he singles out Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Hurley. That makes all kinds of sense right now

I think the Miles/Hurley discussion was the producers way of explaining things to us, I think Miles is right, but he doesn't have all the answers - at least that's how I took it.

And I also wonder if the losties will come back to the present before Ben returns and whether they will warn Dharma about everything Ben will do before they leave.

Oh and the "he won't remember anything" is lame, I thought it would be cool if this past is the reason Ben goes after them like a mad man making their lives miserable - why he had all that information about them etc....

Jelly888, I'm sort of quoting Faraday. Remember when he told Desmond to go see his mother in Los Angeles? I think that's when he said something about the rules not applying to Desmond.

WHERE IS MY DANIEL????????????????????????

Legends of the Hidden Temple! I am dying to know the secrets of that place. So am I right in thinking that Ben always entered into the temple in his past; do you think that has caused him to become the vindictive /crazy island protector he is in the present, a la Danielle's fiance and french friends that got "sick" by becoming overprotective of the island.

Great point about Ben specifically singling out Sawyer, Jack, and Kate. This could be a reason for that besides he couldn't forget everything. It's Ben, and he knew the plane was going to crash.

Loved Locke welcoming Ben back to the land of the living. ha! Amazing how much more I like Locke than two seasons ago.

I didn't mind the relationship matter in the episode because it can't be avoided. These people have history. Still, I don't buy for second that Sawyer jumped off the plane for purely selfish reasons. Oh I'm still a sucker for Sawyer and Kate, I'll admit it.

I don't mind a break from Faraday, but here's hoping Desmond returns next week!

Hurley and Miles were great in their discussions of the relative-ness of time. I loved the Back to the Future reference! If only Hurley had the Dharma Initiative group photo of all them in his pocket, he could check to see if they were all disappearing one at a time.

Otherwise, I'm glad we found out what happened to Aaron! I'm tired of Kate's wishy-washness as well so I'm glad Sawyer told her he has grown up with Juliet. Finally, what a GREAT ending!!

I liked the scenes with Miles and Hurley because they were "real" a conversation that I would have with someone else trying to figure out the time travel stuff. I do have to say Jack won me back just a little this episode by standing up ( kinda) to Juliet and Kate and not doing something he didn't feel was right. Seriously I was a little happy Jack was willing to let Ben die, but then again as Sawyer says Jack doesn't think things out and the consequences of him not doing the surgery makes Ben who he is today....love it!

To me, this was the 1st major episode where Jack mentions "The Island" as an actual thing (i.e. his above quote).

Whereas before he was always ignoring its special-ness and making fun of Locke for being all 'b/c the Island wants us to, Jack!'.

This ep was quite slow for me tho.

I thought the Miles/Hurley time travel conversation was great because it was the writers sort of acknowledging the way they KNOW people discuss the show each week! It was fun to see two people ON the show doing the same thing the rest of us do.

Renee3, I totally agree with you about the two groups of 'Others'. There are the 'Hostiles' and the Dharma - later Dharma and some of the Hostiles will become 'Others'.

What I really loved about this episode was how much of Ben's adult behavior is explained. How he relates to people when he meets them in the future:

Kate- remember how when the Others kidnapped Kate, Ben-in his own creepy way- really did try to set her at ease with the new dress, the breakfast... maybe he was grateful to her for saving him as a child and was trying to show that. Because he IS Benjamin Linus it all turned out creepy, but hey, maybe he was trying!

Juliet- Again, this explains his seeming 'crush' on Juliet when she comes to the island in the future. The book club, etc.He KNEW her as a kid and knows she tried as hard as she could to save him. Which means he would also know about Sawyer- and his involvement with both Kate and Juliet- no wonder Ben the adult can't stand Sawyer.

Syied- obviously Ben would have a huge reason as an adult to hate him. BUT- Ben is very very controlled. He could easily not have shown that he recognized Sayid and also would be patient and wait a long time and use Sayid to break him down as much as possible.

I think the key thing with Ben is that ALL his feelings and personal relationships seem to end up being subject to the Island. And maybe that is the true and terrible drawback Richard was talking about when he took him to be healed in the Temple. Ben was screwed up to begin with but now, everything will come second to the Island.

I just feel like I understand Ben so much more- I feel even sorrier for when Alex got shot- however he got her, he had tried to be a good father to her, to protect her and do better for her than his own father did. ( I also liked seeing how Ben's dad cared for him, but in such a messed up way he just hurt him. But it gave him more depth and humanity). I do think Ben is trying hard to do the right thing. But everyone else does not get a vote about the price to be paid and he is just dragging them along with him.

wow- I didn't mean to talk so much about Ben! I liked all the Kate stuff, loved it that Aaron went back to his grandma for a while. It will be traumatic for him, but is only fair. I think when Kate lost him in the supermarket, it was like a sign that he CAN in fact be taken at any time from her, because he wasn't only hers to begin with. Anyway, I liked knowing where he was while she is on the island.

Liked the reappearance of Clemantine and her mom. They added some nice substance and I think it's interesting that during his Dharma time in the 70s, Sawyer has become someone who might be a better dad.

Mostly, I am TOTALLY looking forward to more Smokey next week

I can understand that whatever Richard is doing for Ben in the Temple could make him forget what happened, but I'm pretty sure Ben is still going to have a scar from the bullet wound. You'd think Juliet and Jack would have noticed that when they operated on him to remove the tumor. I would have loved it if the producers had dangled an old bullet wound on older Ben back a few seasons ago and then had Jack/Juliet have that "Oh, so that's what that was from..." moment this season. Oh well.